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-psycledelics- Discussions TIPS BOARD Note delay
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Manwe




Date Registered:
10.2002
Location:
Russia
Posts: 81


Manwe ist offline
Note delay        Go on top to this Page

Please, explane me in few words how note delay (by xx frames) works in
Psycle. As I know, all trackers have bpm and speed. It means, for example,
if bpm=100 and speed=6 (default value traditionly), then every 4th row in
pattern can be used for bassdrum - in this case you'll get execly 100 beats
per minute. Also speed=6 means that every row can be divide by 6 ticks. If you
want put a note "between" rows, "a half row after", note delay by 3 ticks
must be used. If you want delay note by 1/3 of row, you must use note delay
by 2 ticks. These examples are right for speed=6. If you'll set speed=3,
then every 8th row will associated with bpm and each row can be divided by
3 ticks only (in this case you can delay note by 1/3 or 2/3 of row, but no
by 1/2). So, all trackers uses this therms and algorytms, am I right? But
when I'm trying to use note delay (and set speed too) in Psycle, I get
another result wich I can't understand without documentation. In forum Jaz
already have explane me how set speed works (I found it totaly aganst all
traditional tracker logic, but finaly understand it anyway . Please,
explane me now how note delay works!
Thank you a lot!


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Manwe/SandS

13.11.2002, 05:59 Profile of Manwe Add Manwe to your Buddy-List Homepage of Manwe Add Manwe to your Contact-List
[JAZ]
Psycle Developer



Date Registered:
11.2001
Location:
Balaguer (Spain)
Posts: 1373


[JAZ] ist offline
         Go on top to this Page

Email I tried to send to you, but that was refused by your email server :

------------------------------

The "Tick per beat" style comes from Buzz. It is different than for
trackers, but as you seem to understand, it's more obvious (number of rows
that you see, instead of "ticks" of the internal tracker)

About the Notedelay command, it was implemented to work like it did with
trackers, so what you use in Impulse tracker, or Modplug or whatever, should
work the same in here.
Mmmm.... wait.... I actually see that I hardcoded it to "simulate" speed 6
instead of getting the value from Ticks per beat... (this means, you can
delay the note "param/6" rows, independently of the TPB value)
Should I fix it (made it TPB dependant), or document it better?


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<[JAZ]> Pa pi pa pa pa pi pa.... ;D

13.11.2002, 22:42 Profile of [JAZ] Add [JAZ] to your Buddy-List
Manwe




Date Registered:
10.2002
Location:
Russia
Posts: 81


Manwe ist offline
  Note delay        Go on top to this Page

I think, better leave it as is, delay the note "param/6" rows (please, make a note in documentation .
Well, how you can recomend to make shuffle, swinging rythm? Putting note delay comands for every note in all channels is too boring (and there would be no place for other commands then). Switching TPB is not good too, because pattern structure became looks too dificult (because of this buzz-style) - I must put notes with different steps. Where is quit? You know, swinging temp is base of jazz, funk, trip-hop, house...
...Oh, right! What about adding new global parameter - shuffle (in percents of temp) and step (how many rows must keeps the same temp before temp changes according shaffle value)?


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Manwe/SandS

14.11.2002, 16:49 Profile of Manwe Add Manwe to your Buddy-List Homepage of Manwe Add Manwe to your Contact-List
Pikari




Date Registered:
11.2001
Location:
Finland
Posts: 424


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         Go on top to this Page

Couldn't you just use 3 or 6 rows per beat?

96 rows/pattern or something.


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Pik - the master of short and unclear messages.

14.11.2002, 22:56 Profile of Pikari Add Pikari to your Buddy-List Homepage of Pikari Add Pikari to your Contact-List
Manwe




Date Registered:
10.2002
Location:
Russia
Posts: 81


Manwe ist offline
  Swing        Go on top to this Page

Hmm, for swinging I like to change speed every 2nd row (+/- 15-20% of averange temp). But I can't use TPB changing because I like to see every 8th row highlited in every moment. Only way is to change global BPM every 2nd row, but it is not good too, because note delay command became works with different time offset on different rows. Uff, problems are everywhere
I think, global "shuffle" value would be best solution.


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Manwe/SandS

15.11.2002, 13:41 Profile of Manwe Add Manwe to your Buddy-List Homepage of Manwe Add Manwe to your Contact-List
Pikari




Date Registered:
11.2001
Location:
Finland
Posts: 424


Pikari ist offline
         Go on top to this Page

Shuffle option might be good for someone. Personally I hope that we had LONGER patterns (max 256?). 3 (or 6) rows per beat could be easier to use then. or then not.


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Pik - the master of short and unclear messages.

16.11.2002, 01:47 Profile of Pikari Add Pikari to your Buddy-List Homepage of Pikari Add Pikari to your Contact-List
pooplog
Psycle Developer



Date Registered:
02.2002
Location:
canada
Posts: 231


pooplog ist offline
         Go on top to this Page

all of these things are dealt with in the new psycle alpha.... global trigger delay, retrigger, swing fills, longer patterns... come to #psycle on efnet and get it from bohan's robot. Be warned though, it's rapidly changing and there ARE small bugs (although it's the most stable version yet, imho)...


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www.negspect.com

17.11.2002, 08:22 Profile of pooplog Add pooplog to your Buddy-List Homepage of pooplog
Manwe




Date Registered:
10.2002
Location:
Russia
Posts: 81


Manwe ist offline
  note delay        Go on top to this Page

Uh, great! We are waiting for new version. Hope, it will be done before Psycle Compo #2 deadline

Well, I have another question then. How I can use "note delay" and "set note volume" in the same time for any note?.. By the way, I have a lot of questions like this - all because of volume column missing in Psycle


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Manwe/SandS

17.11.2002, 09:57 Profile of Manwe Add Manwe to your Buddy-List Homepage of Manwe Add Manwe to your Contact-List
FingerSoup




Date Registered:
11.2001
Location:
Toronto, Canada
Posts: 355


FingerSoup ist offline
  Off topic, but...        Go on top to this Page

Ok, I'm looking at the ratings that the message board gives users. Calling Pooplog a "cool newbie" in the Psycle community, is like calling George W. Bush "Mildly Influential" to World politics. Anyone else find this ironic?


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18.11.2002, 00:01 Profile of FingerSoup Add FingerSoup to your Buddy-List
alk




Date Registered:
12.2001
Location:
Edinburgh
Posts: 359


alk ist offline
         Go on top to this Page

heh.

well put

18.11.2002, 00:26 Profile of alk Add alk to your Buddy-List
ksn




Date Registered:
11.2001
Location:
France
Posts: 623


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         Go on top to this Page

i guess i should create a 'developer' forum user category


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18.11.2002, 01:46 Profile of ksn Add ksn to your Buddy-List Homepage of ksn Add ksn to your Contact-List
pooplog
Psycle Developer



Date Registered:
02.2002
Location:
canada
Posts: 231


pooplog ist offline
         Go on top to this Page

"Well, I have another question then. How I can use "note delay" and "set note volume" in the same time for any note?.. By the way, I have a lot of questions like this - all because of volume column missing in Psycle "

Although it's a bit of a hack, you COULD use two tracks and do a set wire volume on the same line as the note delay...

I have thought of making the instrument column do double duty as a volume column, as it's rarely used for anything except tweaks or the sampler, but that would break all old songs, since they all have currently selected parameter spam in that column. I do miss a dedicated volume/panning column. Perhaps we can add one with the upcoming great fileformat update...



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18.11.2002, 20:19 Profile of pooplog Add pooplog to your Buddy-List Homepage of pooplog
Manwe




Date Registered:
10.2002
Location:
Russia
Posts: 81


Manwe ist offline
  note delay + set volume        Go on top to this Page

"...use two tracks and do a set wire volume on the same line as the note delay".

Right, it was a first thing what I thinked about. But look: in my case I have two notes (playing by same generator) in two channels written on same row. First note have no delay, another one have it. I want to set volume=40 for first note and volume=60 for second (delayed) one. But both notes recorded on the same row... I just try to emulate some kind of retrig with increasing volume (Qxy command in Impulse Tracker). Guess, only way is few time increasing global temp But volume column would be better


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Manwe/SandS

19.11.2002, 15:19 Profile of Manwe Add Manwe to your Buddy-List Homepage of Manwe Add Manwe to your Contact-List
[JAZ]
Psycle Developer



Date Registered:
11.2001
Location:
Balaguer (Spain)
Posts: 1373


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         Go on top to this Page

mmm... the sampler has a retrig command, the other machines don't. Maybe should be good to implement it as a tracker command... we will see.


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<[JAZ]> Pa pi pa pa pa pi pa.... ;D

19.11.2002, 22:31 Profile of [JAZ] Add [JAZ] to your Buddy-List
Manwe




Date Registered:
10.2002
Location:
Russia
Posts: 81


Manwe ist offline
  retrig + volume up        Go on top to this Page

I think, it would be great to add as much as possible classic tracker commands for all machines (not only sampler)!


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Manwe/SandS

20.11.2002, 09:24 Profile of Manwe Add Manwe to your Buddy-List Homepage of Manwe Add Manwe to your Contact-List
pooplog
Psycle Developer



Date Registered:
02.2002
Location:
canada
Posts: 231


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I have added global retrigger and trigger delay commands some time ago that affect ALL MACHINE TYPES, including vsts.

here's the tracker command info:

FDxx - Delay Trigger (xx/256 ticks) (works with noteoffs too)

FBxx - Retrigger (xx/256 ticks duration per trigger)

FAxy - Retrigger Continue (x/16 = ticks duration per trigger, 0 = use current) (y = acceleration, 1-8 pos, 9-f negative f is the slowest negative acceleration, 1 is slowest positive acceleration) * does not trigger on new line, rather continues from previous retrigger position


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20.11.2002, 20:54 Profile of pooplog Add pooplog to your Buddy-List Homepage of pooplog
Manwe




Date Registered:
10.2002
Location:
Russia
Posts: 81


Manwe ist offline
  retrigs        Go on top to this Page

Great! We'll see how it can be used on practic


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Manwe/SandS

20.11.2002, 21:38 Profile of Manwe Add Manwe to your Buddy-List Homepage of Manwe Add Manwe to your Contact-List
Manwe




Date Registered:
10.2002
Location:
Russia
Posts: 81


Manwe ist offline
can we hope fore even more? :)        Go on top to this Page

Pooplog, what about volume slide up and volume slide down commands? Sometime any notes needs individual "volume envelope" for make accents. Volume slide, especially together with set start volume (in volume column) is great way to make interesting dynamic solo or bass - almost all used this trick in oldscool trackers.


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20.11.2002, 22:11 Profile of Manwe Add Manwe to your Buddy-List Homepage of Manwe Add Manwe to your Contact-List
iliks




Date Registered:
04.2002
Location:
Moscow, Russia
Posts: 15


iliks ist offline
  Question for developers        Go on top to this Page

Could you make the following display option in future Psycle releases: to switch off effects column when you want thus obtaining more screen space for channels. ModPlug Tracker has this feature. Why have effects column always switched off, it is needed only sometimes, often when all notes are already and you are making final touches here and there. Then you could switch effects column on.

12.12.2002, 15:58 Profile of iliks Add iliks to your Buddy-List Homepage of iliks
pooplog
Psycle Developer



Date Registered:
02.2002
Location:
canada
Posts: 231


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I just got back from snowboard vacation. It was awesome.

Manwe

quote:
Pooplog, what about volume slide up and volume slide down commands? Sometime any notes needs individual "volume envelope" for make accents. Volume slide, especially together with set start volume (in volume column) is great way to make interesting dynamic solo or bass - almost all used this trick in oldscool trackers.


Problem is, different types of machines handle volume in different ways, the only way to make GLOBAL volume effects would be wire volume effects.

iliks
quote:
Could you make the following display option in future Psycle releases: to switch off effects column when you want thus obtaining more screen space for channels. ModPlug Tracker has this feature. Why have effects column always switched off, it is needed only sometimes, often when all notes are already and you are making final touches here and there. Then you could switch effects column on.


Yes, this could be done pretty easily. Added to todo list.


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14.12.2002, 06:05 Profile of pooplog Add pooplog to your Buddy-List Homepage of pooplog
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