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-psycledelics- » Discussions » TIPS BOARD » How do I change a program number?
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Rhino




Date Registered:
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How do I change a program number?        Go on top to this Page

I'm using Triangle II and I want to be able to change the program number to something other than 1, which is what it always defaults to when you load in a song. I've tried saving the preset from a number and loading it in on top of 1 and this usually works, but in this instance I'm using program 28 and it sounds nothing like it when I load it back in on top of 1.

Is there a twk command that allows me to do this?


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14.08.2002, 12:09 Profile of Rhino Add Rhino to your Buddy-List Homepage of Rhino
[JAZ]
Psycle Developer



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The only way to do it right now is with mcm command ( midi command ).

It SHOULD be in SHIFT+twk key, but due to an error I entered, you'll have to change this to another key/combination. (this is done via configuration-Configure Keyboard, and searching for "mcm (MIDI CC)" )

then, the way to do it is :

mcm C0 macnum programval00

example : set mac 01 to program 30 on midi channel 0

mcm C0 01 1E


use C1 , C2 , ... CF, for other MIDI channels (if needed)


More information in MIDI.org


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<[JAZ]> Pa pi pa pa pa pi pa.... ;·D

14.08.2002, 13:15 Profile of [JAZ] Add [JAZ] to your Buddy-List
Rhino




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Aha, got it - works great!

Thanks a lot, Jaz.

While I'm on the subject of asking for help, is there any way to customise the arpeggiators in certain machines, like Pooplog? (i.e. tell it what notes you want in the arpeggio).


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14.08.2002, 15:47 Profile of Rhino Add Rhino to your Buddy-List Homepage of Rhino
Pikari




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quote:
Original by Rhino
While I'm on the subject of asking for help, is there any way to customise the arpeggiators in certain machines, like Pooplog? (i.e. tell it what notes you want in the arpeggio).



Pooplog has tracker arpeggio command.. 1eXX or something.

Something, I think.


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14.08.2002, 16:50 Profile of Pikari Add Pikari to your Buddy-List Homepage of Pikari Add Pikari to your Contact-List
Rhino




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Ok, I see.
1eXX cahnges the rate where 1fXX transposes the arpeggio. That's quite cool. It'd be good if you could specify the exact notes, though.


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16.08.2002, 17:10 Profile of Rhino Add Rhino to your Buddy-List Homepage of Rhino
ksn




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i've read that the author of Massiva (and Energy etc...) will release as a vst the phrase sequencer which already exists for Massiva.

it seems to work the same way as the step sequencer of Energy does, so i guess it's gonna be cool

it won't be free though


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16.08.2002, 18:54 Profile of ksn Add ksn to your Buddy-List Homepage of ksn Add ksn to your Contact-List
Rhino




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Never heard of Massiva or Energy.
Looking into it now....


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19.08.2002, 12:03 Profile of Rhino Add Rhino to your Buddy-List Homepage of Rhino
Mizar




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BTW i'll just want 2 say that "Massiva" is made by

(Norwegian) Jørgen Aase

hehe.....nothing really more than that!!! :ya .........or something........er...........


Miza[R]

-=SutureSelfMusic=-


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Life! where can i download one?

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JAL7OH




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a note: the midi change patch may not work with some vst plugs, like Speedsoft Vsampler (will change patch but not multi - by design) or others that dont fully support the vst2.1 specs like Image-Line Wasp.

psycle needs a vst change program command..

20.08.2002, 21:43 Profile of JAL7OH Add JAL7OH to your Buddy-List
ksn




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quote:
Original by Mizar
BTW i'll just want 2 say that "Massiva" is made by

(Norwegian) Jørgen Aase

hehe.....nothing really more than that!!! :ya .........or something........er...........


Miza[R]

-=SutureSelfMusic=-



well you could have added that it is a really grat programs, and so are the different plugins Jørgen Aase coded


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20.08.2002, 23:52 Profile of ksn Add ksn to your Buddy-List Homepage of ksn Add ksn to your Contact-List
DANCEnRg




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quote:
Original by JAL7OH


psycle needs a vst change program command..



quote:
Original by JAL7OH


psycle needs a vst change program command..



Why hasn't it allready?

Like in the parameter window to the left theirs the programs with a corrosponding number.I'm suprised their is no tracker command that can play that program.This was a prime way I'd make tunes,set a program to load up then set parameters for tweaks to that program.

It's an essential with the big synths to be able to load up saved programs.

I havn't even started with midi commands which will complicate the issue for me,I'm a musician not a programmer.I like to be able to simply do something and hear the results and not have to remember a dictionary of X and Y commands or learn about midi commands to set a simple Vsti progam in play.

Don't read this as a complaint,read this as what this musician wants from a program.

First Make all the key eliments of music making.

Rhythms
beats
notes
Changing instruments
volumes
times
Fx

clear and precise to see,hear and understand how to command.

Maybe I'm no computing genuis,though I know what sounds I'd like to place where and when in a song,and I'm finding this simple in musical terms being made difficult with what are essentially music programs though are being designed more from a programmers view point.

Listen to the people who are making the music and make pyscle something that will flourish and grow,not fade into the background when something better comes along.Because theirs allways something new on the horrizon.

For example the hex and decimal conflict.

All instruments I have and have seen use the decimal measurement,many trackers use this hex like some kind of old school theory that hex gives more...more what.

Science users decimal because it is the most precise yet simple way of measurement we have yet come up with.nearly every modern measurement is done in decimal,kidzz are taught decimel in school,proffessors use decimal to sum up huge calculations of their theorys on the t-universe.Computers work well using 0 and 1's a decimal base of computing.

Why do trackers use HEX? whats the point,it's inferior and smells of a mix up of letters and numbers.


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14.01.2003, 07:41 Profile of DANCEnRg Add DANCEnRg to your Buddy-List Homepage of DANCEnRg
sampler




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well, mainly there is one reason to use Hex instead of decimal. In Hex with only two digits u can reach to 256 (00..FF) u know.... it's a question of space.

But i agree with u.


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14.01.2003, 08:57 Profile of sampler Add sampler to your Buddy-List Add sampler to your Contact-List AIM Screenname: jegln6 YIM Screenname: jegln6
DANCEnRg




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Thanx sampler me was having a moment of expression with that one.

I Actaully don't try to use hex,I like do a weird yet not perfect calculation and pretend it's decimel.
I don't think for me personally it would make things clear if I began using hex on a whole so I'll continue with my weird approach.

I'm in a stage of transitions between programs, and when I really really want to put a neat sound in a perticular place and am not sure how or can't set the synths program like I used to,it just winds me up everytime.

I know what and how I want to make music,pyscle seems to have the most possibilties of anything at a working stage @ the moment.

I Want the modular approach as psycle has.

I Want the buzz like sequencer like psycle could have.

And I want a program that I can quickly set up instruments and play notes without too much feel of programming.

Basically so when I'm jamming and feeling the tune I can add to it as 'present' time as possible.

I want alot

And it'll only stay fun if it's free,their the fun bits when ya feel em.

the rest is down time.


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Last edited by DANCEnRg on 14.01.2003, 13:27 o'clock.

14.01.2003, 13:20 Profile of DANCEnRg Add DANCEnRg to your Buddy-List Homepage of DANCEnRg
FingerSoup




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quote:
Original by DANCEnRg

I havn't even started with midi commands which will complicate the issue for me,I'm a musician not a programmer.I like to be able to simply do something and hear the results and not have to remember a dictionary of X and Y commands or learn about midi commands to set a simple Vsti progam in play.

...

Maybe I'm no computing genuis,though I know what sounds I'd like to place where and when in a song,and I'm finding this simple in musical terms being made difficult with what are essentially music programs though are being designed more from a programmers view point.

...

Why do trackers use HEX? whats the point,it's inferior and smells of a mix up of letters and numbers.




Part of the reason is that trackers were originally designed to help Demoscene programmers write music for their demos. These are people who write incredibly tight code, so they can make their computers do seemingly impossible things. they live and breathe HEX. Thus, it's one less conversion for the computer to do when saving the file format, also making the file format more readable in a HEX editor. Furthermore, as it was explained, HEX takes up less physical space on-screen, which means more tracks on-screen.

I'm not saying that we should necessarily stick to arcane practices, but to someone who has been tracking on and off for 8 or 9 years, HEX makes sense. it's a comfort thing for people who have been using Psycle's predecessors. I like to believe that Psycle was designed to bring the studio-quality features of other programs to the tracker, not the other way around. In this respect, I Think Psycle has done quite well.

I also think that seeing Psycle is full of (Some tracking purists would say "bloated" with) features, in comparison to say, Impulse tracker, I can see it's pull away from Demoscene and into professional music production moreso than with other trackers. Thus, I think a SECOND interface which graphically represents what is seen on the tracking side of things(ie: piano roll, decimal numbers, etc...) would be a benefit to the non-tracking community, and allow more musicians access to this great program that we love. I wouldn't ditch the tracker interface though... I like it too much. Of course I AM a programming student, and all that HEX makes sense to me


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DANCEnRg




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thanx for explaining

Would it be difficult to have a HEX or Decimal choice,their both measurements so one should easily convert to another and vise versa,though I have no idea what the programming involved in this would be I have seen it done somewhere,though I forget where.

I was being a little extreme as some prefer and feel comfortable using HEX while others prefer decimal.

It;s like where I live some prefer metric while some prefer inches.Come to think of it I do use both though I prefer centimetres and feet than inches and yards.


whilst with Hex and decimal on trackers,whilst decimal seems more logical and suits the actual pattern of calculation,Hex enables larger numbers to be commanded whilst using less space on the screen.

It just would be really cool if I could set' FX Delay' time ,machine 2, command 8, to 0.1 milli-seconds by placing that exact number in the tracker

2--8--0.1

Thats what bugs me,the measurement that many modern instruments,Vsti etc use,decimal measurement with all their configurations.So a 0.001 of a second for a delay will be seen as fxfx...? whatever? in hex.

So am I right in thinking that Hex is mainly a language set and used mostly by the programmer whilst decimal is to a large extent being used for synthesis calculation in instruments.

And their the difference is,two languages in a music program trying to do the same thing.If the software was for help in programming Hex would give aid,but for the actually music I don't see how it moves things along or and will make a better song.

Having a option to choose between the two would suit the majority as having options allways allways gets the largest approval,is this possible to do with psycle?.


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Last edited by DANCEnRg on 15.01.2003, 04:42 o'clock.

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FingerSoup




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For VST/VSTi, you can compare the decimal value to the Hex value by double-cllicking and then reading the values at the bottom of the "psycle-native gui" frame (the grey part on the right).
Psycle plugins are a different matter entirely. People code them to work however they want, and have no display to tell you the HEX value of something decimal


quote:
So am I right in thinking that Hex is mainly a language set and used mostly by the programmer whilst decimal is to a large extent being used for synthesis calculation in instruments


It's not a language per se, but a different way to represent a value.

Hex is Base 16. Decimal is base 10. Binary is Base 2, and Octal is Base 8.

So, assuming the same 16 bit integer:

Decimal - 46759 IS:
Binary - 1011011010100111
Octal - 133247
Hex - B6A7

- Start History and Math Lesson -

Because all computers work in Binary, and most programmers are lazy, they want to write down the least amount of data. Here's how binary works (and why it takes too much to write.)

A byte has 8 bits. the maximum value for any amount of data is (2 to the power of N)-1. thus the largest number possible in 8 bits of data is 255.


Given the decimal number 212,
Just as decimal has the following place-holders:

code:

100's 10's 1's
2 1 2



In decimal, you can have 0-9 in any of the placeholders. multiply these digits by the place holder, then add all the results together. So for decimal, you get:
(100 * 2) + (10 * 1) + (2*1) = 212


Binary only allows 2 digits (0 and 1), and thus works with the following place holders:

code:

128's 64's 32's 16's 8's 4's 2's 1's
1 1 0 1 0 1 0 0



therefore following the same logic as the decimal numbers:
(128*1) + (64 *1) + (32 * 0) + (16 * 1) + (8 * 0) + (4 * 1) + (2 * 0) + (1 * 0) = 212

So, to a computer, 212 in Decimal is really 11010100 Binary. Talk about a lot of writing for lazy people...

Because Binary is base 2, programmers decided that the easiest conversions would be multiples of base 2. First was Octal, which is base 8. With one Octal digit, you can represent 3 bits of data. Start at the left, and group in 3's. Then convert each chunk of 3 bits to decimal. Place the digits next to each other, in the same order as the groups were in. Thus, 101 would be 5 Octal, 010 is 2 octal, 101110 is 56 octal, etc...

The biggest problem with Octal, is that computers store things in 8 bit. Octal could only represent bits in groups of 3, meaning a full 8 bits (Decimal 255, or binary 11111111) is represented in octal as 377. To edit a binary file directly, this short form would either require endless conversions for a file to be read (as one byte would overflow into another) or it would requite adding an extra bit that is ALWAYS set to zero. It gave most programmers icky feelings when confronted with having to do these kinds of things... Especially when your computer back then had only 16K of memory to do these conversions... Programmers don't like icky feelings. So they asked: "Why don't we group 4 bits together instead of 3?" The answer was "Because there aren't enough digits." Due to the sheer bloodymindedness of programmers, they said: "Fine. Lets just steal some letters from the alphabet and call them digits!"

So hexidecimal was born. A=10, F=15. You can fill in the rest in between. Basically, you take your binary code (11010100) and break it into groups of 4. convert to decimal, and substitute values over 9 with the appropriate letter.

thus:
0100 = 4
1101 = 13 = D
11010100 = D4

Hex was born, and all was good in the land of programming. FF now represents 255 (the maximumn 8-bit value).

Now of course we have the problem of decimals, or "Floating point math" as we call it in programming. Floating point is just too difficult for me to explain, so someone else can. Basically, floating point math has a bunch of extra rules, so the computer can convert 4.342869 to a bunch of 1's and 0's for the computer to do math with. If you just write it in Hex, it is ever-so-slightly less processor intensive, as the computer will not have to calculate these conversions for you.

- end Lesson -

So, the answer to "Is it difficult to convert Hex to Floating point?" is Not really for a computer. It will take a little bit more processor time, but not much (unless you really overdo it).

But, if the question is "how many interface changes would it take to convert Hex to floating point in a tracker-style interface?" the answer is, a lot. You have to consider how many decimal places you will allow for the floating point number, how many bits of accuracy, Maximum/Minimum values, etc... Whereas with Hex, you just need to worry about "how many bits Do I have?" because every digit in Hex really accounts for 4 bits of data. Thus regardless of how big your number is (within the limits of your bit limit) you will ALWAYS have a specified number of HEX digits, thus a specified number of columns. Hence, the grid-like view of trackers: Every track and note looks the same.


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