-psycledelics- - Feature Request

Feature Request

Hi, all. Having fun with the new Psycle, seems like a big improvement over older versions. Anyway, I have a request for a feature I think would be very useful, and maybe not to hard to implement.

I think the "record tweaks" function is a solid step toward an automated saving of machine state, and I think that would make Psycling much easier, and less likely to lose a sweet set of parameters, like I have so often.

So take it however you like, but I think you are halfway there already, and I would just ask for another button or two extending the functionality of the "record tweaks" to "record selected machine(s) state," which would record all params as tweaks. This way I could also copy and paste all or some of the settings from one song to another, perhaps. I have often felt it is a drag having to manuallly load or tweak the machines when I reload a song I was working on before, and I think it would be a great convenience to allow for this, a faster way of saving and loading params, and I like to think it could just be an extension on the functionality you Psycle programmers have already built.

If such a solution can be easily devised, I could set up my machines however I wanted to and then reserve one sequence, (or just 4 or 8 beats, maybe) just for tweaks, silent otherwise, at the very beginning or end. Then perhaps as the sequencer part of the Psycle project develops, perhaps an option to not play one designated sequence or more, and to just use it to store tweaks. This would be easier than the machine presets dialogue, ideally, and would be able to load multiple machines at once. Just highlight where the tweak you want is, hit F6 (play selected notes or sequences,) and all my tweaks would (re)load. It would also make for an easier way to save whole param setups that I could later use for other songs, or evaluate and choose to add to my presets or not.

As a developing Psycler, I have to confess I have found a sweet setup for some machine(s) countless times and then forgotten to save, or just gotten excited and kept playing and suddenly I have changed it and can't find my way back ... Putting a save multiple machine state in the menu or on the toolbar would make creating easier less work, I think. I think this is perhaps a logical next step for the "record twks" functionality which works so nicely already. Cheers, Frog

Last edited by minifrog on 02.01.2006, 22:42 o'clock.

02.01.2006, 22:38

Psycle does this already.

__________________
Synth1 and Psycle, what more could someone ask for ?

02.01.2006, 22:42

Date Registered:
12.2005
Location:
Village of Blythe
Posts: 11

quote:
Original by js
Psycle does this already.

I don't think so. If I want to save all params as tweaks, you are saying I can do that? Tell me how, I would really appreciate it. Far as I know, Psycle just restores the last settings for any machine you load.

Last edited by minifrog on 02.01.2006, 23:41 o'clock.

02.01.2006, 22:51

hematurge
Psycler

Not to sound redundant but why not just save a preset?

__________________

Face alienation, find an alien nation...

03.01.2006, 01:08

quote:
Original by hematurge
Not to sound redundant but why not just save a preset?

By that same reasoning, why not just manually reselect all your samples every time you reload the song? Answer: because they are part of the song.

The machine settings are also part of the song and should be saved with the song. I was just suggesting a direct way of doing it perhaps, since the tweak recorder has been created. Imagine having to manually reselect the samples you use every time you reload a project. The selection of samples is integral to a song, and so they are saved as part of it. I am saying that machine settings are also, and I was just hoping some programmer would read this and say, "Oh yeah, I can do that easily enough." (I don't know at all that it would be easy, I'm just hoping.) I like the idea of saving them as tweaks, also, because it is then part of the pattern editor view, which can be viewed and further tweaked manually with a keyboard. But I am not a programmer. I don't really know what a programmer might think about this.

The machine settings are an important part of the thing you're creating, and to have to manually reset every machine, even if it is just remember and select presets you made for however many machines you have, it makes more work than necessary -- assuming you #can# get it back the same again. I don't know how other people work, but I often have several machines working together, all synced together. And I also earn my living with my computer and have to turn away from creative projects in an unfinished state sometimes, as I need the resources. So I step away from a song, work on something else for a few days, come back and can't find all my settings again because I forgot to save every machine as a preset.

Or say I want to work with another tracker/Psycler. I need to give this person presets for all the machines, rather than have them saved in the song? Which sounds easier? If all recordable params can be shared as part of the song, doesn't that make collaboration and sharing more viable?

How about a functionality that lets you save them all at once, and as tweaks you can view, or cut and paste? Doesn't that sound quicker or easier? Oh well, I just suggested this because I have always thought machine settings are part of a song and should be saved with it, and that since the tweak recorder was completed, it might be easy to implement in this fashion, I don't really know. Cheers, Froglet

Last edited by minifrog on 03.01.2006, 07:30 o'clock.

03.01.2006, 03:09

Sounds to me like an isssue with the way you work.

__________________
Synth1 and Psycle, what more could someone ask for ?

Last edited by js on 03.01.2006, 14:46 o'clock.

03.01.2006, 14:45

quote:
Original by js
Sounds to me like an isssue with the way you work.

I asked you to explain how Psycle already does this, as you claimed previously in this thread, and you have opted to criticize my working method instead. My working method could certainly use improvement, as could your communication skills. I have a good idea here, I think it's obvious.

Last edited by minifrog on 03.01.2006, 18:27 o'clock.

03.01.2006, 17:59

Date Registered:
12.2005
Location:
Village of Blythe
Posts: 11

quote:
Original by minifrog
[QUOTE]Original by js
Sounds to me like an isssue with the way you work.

__________________
Synth1 and Psycle, what more could someone ask for ?

04.01.2006, 01:05

hematurge
Psycler

I'm not sure I'm getting it. When I save a song, the machines' parameters are just as they were then when I reopen it. AS far as I can tell your asking for this feature and it already exists. Or, again maybe I'm not getting it.

__________________

Face alienation, find an alien nation...

04.01.2006, 01:19

TranceMyriad
Psycler

Date Registered:
01.2004
Location:
Australia
Posts: 466

if you know what parameters you're altering, why don't you just reset them to the correct values (using twk) at the beginning of your tune?

e.g. if i alter the filter cutoff parameter during my tune, at the beginning, i put a row of tweaks, including setting the filter parameter to its starting value. and if i'm playing around with a synth and find a sound i like, i immediately save it as a preset.

Finally, to save all a machines parameters as tweaks would be a bit crazy: just think of machines like z3ta+, that have over 64 parameters - you couldn't put tweaks for them on the same line, which would mean either using multiple lines (a messy option imo) or not setting all the parameters.

While this idea is nice in concept, i think there are ways of already doing this, and perhaps you do need to change the way you work a little bit.

Something i do think could be improved is the importing/exporting of presets, and THAT is something to add to the TODO list.

Besides which, whatever state you leave your machine in, should be saved in the song you're working on.

I just don't think your suggestion is particularly practical.

Also, which VSTs are you using? there's a select few VSTs whose parameters aren't saved properly in Psycle, due to the current VST Host (which will be replaced once JAZ has finished sampulse). You shouldn't have to re-load presets each time you start up Psycle, but unfortunately, with a couple of VSTs (i think Triangle II used to do that, not sure if it does anymore) it is necessary.

__________________

www.quantinuitymusic.com

Last edited by TranceMyriad on 04.01.2006, 02:34 o'clock.

04.01.2006, 02:31

[JAZ]
Psycle Developer

Date Registered:
11.2001
Location:
Balaguer (Spain)
Posts: 1238

Summing up:

It is true (could be considered a bug), that tweaking a machine (with twk commands) and saving, leaves the machine at the tweaked values, instead of the initial ones.
This should be fixed, but this includes the complete machine setup.

Several parts should be modified (tweaking from machine-> update the stored setup. stopping-> reset the setup).

It is also true that the preset dialog is not friendly. It was developed once as a temporary solution, but has never changed.

Finally, as TranceMyriad said, it is not feasible to save all the values as twk's in the pattern, yet, I always wanted to add a "program change" command, like VST's, which would allow to change the preset in use. Many VST's allow the user to customize each program. It would be interesting that psycle plugins have this too.

__________________
<[JAZ]> Pa pi pa pa pa pi pa.... ;ˇD

04.01.2006, 12:56

Date Registered:
01.2004
Location:
Australia
Posts: 466

quote:
Original by hematurge
I'm not sure I'm getting it. When I save a song, the machines' parameters are just as they were then when I reopen it. AS far as I can tell your asking for this feature and it already exists. Or, again maybe I'm not getting it.

Well, maybe I am not getting it, not you |-). But if you save a song, and then reopen a different song you were working on days or weeks before, I think it will restore the most recent settings used, and not the ones from the older song. And if I email you a .psy file, the machine settings don't mail with it, right? So then it opens with the last settings you used for those machines and not the settings I used when I made the song. Or is that not so?

Sorry if I am wrong. I still think it's a good idea.

06.01.2006, 04:21

TranceMyriad
Psycler

you are wrong

When you save your song, psycle saves the VST's current parameter settings into the file, so that when you reopen it later, they are restored. And yes, if you email it, the settings are sent with the file

If what you say IS happening to you, you are probably using a couple of erroneous VSTs - it is not a common occurrence.

__________________

www.quantinuitymusic.com

06.01.2006, 04:41

quote:
Original by TranceMyriad
if you know what parameters you're altering, why don't you just reset them to the correct values (using twk) at the beginning of your tune?

I think that is what I was suggesting that could be done, but in an automated fashion. Seems you and Jaz think saving all params would be too much. Maybe you're right. I was beginning to think a designated 4, 8, or 16 beats of silence at the beginning of a song would be a good place to put such an admittedly huge number of tweaks.

quote:
e.g. if i alter the filter cutoff parameter during my tune, at the beginning, i put a row of tweaks, including setting the filter parameter to its starting value. and if i'm playing around with a synth and find a sound i like, i immediately save it as a preset.

And I just need to get in the habit of doing that more. Maybe that is the only solution.

quote:
Finally, to save all a machines parameters as tweaks would be a bit crazy: just think of machines like z3ta+, that have over 64 parameters - you couldn't put tweaks for them on the same line, which would mean either using multiple lines (a messy option imo) or not setting all the parameters.

I was imagining the messy option. I thought it would be less messy, at least inasmuch as all settings would definitely be contained in the song.

quote:
While this idea is nice in concept, i think there are ways of already doing this, and perhaps you do need to change the way you work a little bit.

OK, maybe you are right. I am the king of whack ideas.

quote:
Something i do think could be improved is the importing/exporting of presets, and THAT is something to add to the TODO list.

That would be sooooo great!

quote:
Besides which, whatever state you leave your machine in, should be saved in the song you're working on.

It is? It has been my impression it simply restores most recent settings, not the settings specific to a song.

quote:
I just don't think your suggestion is particularly practical.

Maybe not.

quote:
Also, which VSTs are you using? there's a select few VSTs whose parameters aren't saved properly in Psycle, due to the current VST Host (which will be replaced once JAZ has finished sampulse). You shouldn't have to re-load presets each time you start up Psycle ...

I don't each time I start Psycle, but I think you still do every time you change songs. Maybe I am wrong? I just upgraded from 1.7.6 also.

quote:
i think Triangle II used to do that, not sure if it does anymore

I just crashed my computer with a Triangle II preset. In fact it crashed the computer every time I switched to that preset (3 times). Then after that, other synths started screwing up whenever I tried using a preset. So disturbing I deleted that preset. I should have saved that for you all. I got real upset, gave up for the night, and now it seems to be behaving ... But maybe I should just shut up and play for a while. Maybe it was prsumptuous of me to suggest a way of doing this to you programmers. You know the software far, far better than I do. Sorry if I have been a pest. I have a lot to learn here, and I don't want to pretend I'm an expert. Psycle is one of my favorite toys. Cheers, frog

06.01.2006, 05:12

quote:
Original by TranceMyriad
you are wrong

Ow! YOu got me!

quote:

When you save your song, psycle saves the VST's current parameter settings into the file, so that when you reopen it later, they are restored. And yes, if you email it, the settings are sent with the file

I must be thinking of experiences with an older version or something. I am sorry if I am wrong. I shut up and play now.

quote:

If what you say IS happening to you, you are probably using a couple of erroneous VSTs - it is not a common occurrence.

06.01.2006, 05:14

quote:
Original by js
Psycle does this already.

__________________
Synth1 and Psycle, what more could someone ask for ?

06.01.2006, 13:27