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-psycledelics- » Discussions » MAIN BOARD » Compo #4 comments
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MfM




Date Registered:
08.2003
Location:
catania-ITALY
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yes yes!strange votes...i think there be something strange ...anyway!!!

TO DILVIE:thanks for your comment,as to the usual one very professional,i agree there is too much reverb on the snare!!!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!


#MfM#


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30.12.2003, 12:02 Profile of MfM Add MfM to your Buddy-List
Taika-Kim




Date Registered:
03.2002
Location:
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VERY good & informative reviews, Dilvie! Thank you.

I'm using a XP1800+. So that means that usually in the latter stages of songwriting I have work half-deaf since I can't listen to very long sequences even with max buffer settings.

Of course I could share FX, but I don't want to. This is the way computers ought to be used, since there are no limits in this regard! And I DO share them somewhat... Usually I have dedicated FX buses for all the main sounds, and then just use those for all the misc & more rarely used stuff.

The beginning could maybe be dropped, yes, and of course the whole structure could be much better, but in a tracker, making big orchestrations & big changes in the latter parts of the production is usually a TON of work. I hope the new pattern sequencer will help...
This is my main problem these days. I use a lot of tracks & twks, and after some months the songs are completely unintelligible to me... Doing any changes is a pain, since I can't remember what everything is supposed to do, and the tracker pattern format really isn't good for re-structuring the track in it's finished form.
It all reminds me of the days I used to do programming. My code was usually such a mess, that it didn't take me many days to get completely lost in my own verses...

And I don't care a heck what ordinary pop listeners want I'm used to listening ambient & trance, and songs in excess of 8 minutes are very OK by my standards. Just listen to the extra track on Queen's Made in heaven (CD) to see what I mean. Now THATS what I call a good, surprising structure

30.12.2003, 15:44 Profile of Taika-Kim Add Taika-Kim to your Buddy-List Homepage of Taika-Kim
FunTOM




Date Registered:
02.2002
Location:
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Hi, I've finally got to listen to all the tracks and had to say It's HELL difficult to decide! Great work everyone.

I wish you good entering the new year. Have fun.


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30.12.2003, 20:58 Profile of FunTOM Add FunTOM to your Buddy-List Homepage of FunTOM Add FunTOM to your Contact-List
liquid boy




Date Registered:
08.2003
Location:
dunedin, new zealand
Posts: 211


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  the origional disconnect:        Go on top to this Page

good comments dilvie. thanks. - i took the liberty of commenting on your post...asking some questions, where appropriate.


quote:
I consider top40 radio to be "average" and on my current scale of 0-45, most of the top 40 radio hits currently winning Grammy's would have earned between 20 and 30


so does that mean you 've judged the stuff on the basis of what 'stuck in your head' (ie, which tracks had the best hooks etc)?
i say that cos your post made it sound like the top40 sound (polished, 'professional' 'nice' etc) is the desired sound quality (which is perfectly ok, btw, im not knocking it), when, to me the opposite (quite often) sounds better (amaturism / lo-fi etc - all that idealistic stuff)


quote:
...sound a lot like you've just openned up some machines and used the random values feature.
nooooooo! *sarcasm* - i see you've read the txt file then... - i guess you could say it was a concept piece. (half seriously)
maybe next time i should have a set number of times to push "randomise" or something, make it more methodical...

i was quite pleased with (all) of the sounds i got.
ok so maybe i didnt love the clicking noise, but i didn't mind it, and i was going to stick to my origional plan, that the only way i would make the sounds (appart from the effects) was by selecting "randomize" (i wasnt' going to intentionally try to make a certian sound) - so i guess i could have got rid of the clicking, but then that wouldn't have been 'true' to the concept
but yeah, i get your point... it probably would have sounded better without the clicking...


quote:
...but nothing struck me as terribly original.

yeah, that's what i was going for (the 'nominal' sound) the idea of "the world between worlds" (a reference from "the magician's nefew - cs lewis) is stagnant place where time stands still, which is why the music kind of idles along and doesn't 'stick out'

i dont think i understand why you put a 2 for structure... i felt that the piece flowed quite nicely. - was it cos it didnt seem to have any 'direction'? or did it not thnk it flowed? or was it just that it wasnt exciting? (kinda regular like)?


sweet, well i think that'll do me for now. sorry if i got over zelous defending my work... your comments were quite valid, even if i thought that they werent (the concept of the piece is as important as the piece. without understanding the concept....etc) - did that make sence?

oh well


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Last edited by liquid boy on 01.01.2004, 13:10 o'clock.

01.01.2004, 13:08 Profile of liquid boy Add liquid boy to your Buddy-List Homepage of liquid boy
dilvie




Date Registered:
07.2002
Location:
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top40 radio -- average

quote:

so does that mean you 've judged the stuff on the basis of what 'stuck in your head' (ie, which tracks had the best hooks etc)?


No, it simply means that if you scored between 20-30, you're doing well enough that I think you deserve to be heard just as much as (or more than) many top40 radio acts.

I was looking for exactly what I scored the pieces on: good structure, good dynamics, an understanding of how melody and harmony fit into music (or in the case of ambient tracks, an understanding of how frequency movement can be used to develop a piece), quality technical production, etc...

I tried to make the reviews as un-biased and as detached from any specific genre preference as possible -- which isn't terribly difficult for me, because I appreciate all of the genres that were represented in the contest, including ambient/experimental/noise/concept (some of my favorite styles -- note your style score).

random settings...
quote:
nooooooo! *sarcasm* - i see you've read the txt file then...


Actually, no. I just openned up the songs and started judging. I've read it now. I've seen that "concept" practiced by a friend, but it wasn't totally random -- he kept the sounds that sounded good, and didn't use the sounds that sounded bad -- true, not completely random, but at least his music didn't have clicks that gave me a head-ache. =)

quote:
i was quite pleased with (all) of the sounds i got.
ok so maybe i didnt love the clicking noise, but i didn't mind it, and i was going to stick to my origional plan, that the only way i would make the sounds (appart from the effects) was by selecting "randomize" (i wasnt' going to intentionally try to make a certian sound) - so i guess i could have got rid of the clicking, but then that wouldn't have been 'true' to the concept


You still could have rejected that sound all-together and kept clicking randomize until you got one that sounded good and *didn't* click. You could have stayed true to your concept, and still had a better piece on your hands in the end.

quote:
but yeah, i get your point... it probably would have sounded better without the clicking...


Exactly. =)

originality
quote:
yeah, that's what i was going for (the 'nominal' sound) the idea of "the world between worlds" (a reference from "the magician's nefew - cs lewis) is stagnant place where time stands still, which is why the music kind of idles along and doesn't 'stick out'


If you're specifically aiming to put your audience to sleep, don't be surprised when it works.

structure
quote:

i dont think i understand why you put a 2 for structure... i felt that the piece flowed quite nicely. - was it cos it didnt seem to have any 'direction'? or did it not thnk it flowed? or was it just that it wasnt exciting? (kinda regular like)?


Look up at the stars -- I don't know how much more between worlds you can get -- there's a literally symphony playing out up there with it's own ups and downs, twists and turns, peaks and valleys. Your song sounded too flat -- there weren't a lot of dynamics. There wasn't a well-crafted interplay between tension and release, order and chaos ... it just didn't happen for me.

Like I said before, when you specifically aim to create a piece with no direction, don't be surprised when you put your listeners to sleep.


quote:

sweet, well i think that'll do me for now. sorry if i got over zelous defending my work... your comments were quite valid, even if i thought that they werent (the concept of the piece is as important as the piece. without understanding the concept....etc) - did that make sence?



I understand and respect what you were trying to do, but I'm going to offer you some advice -- take it or leave it. I offer it for your benefit, and it won't hurt my feelings at all if you decide to ignore me.

Concept means absolutely nothing if the piece doesn't stand on its own without a textfile exlpaining, "I've just hit 'randomize' and arranged the sounds..."

If the piece isn't musically, or artistically, or emotionally, or technically compelling, it's just noise. Your piece had a lot of potential, but I was never really sucked into your world between worlds by it -- the picture just wasn't properly fleshed out in some places, and in others, there were glaring problems (such as the clicking) that made the environment un-inviting.

Space has dynamics -- the ocean has dynamics -- even places where things are litterally adrift between worlds have real dynamics that could create a compelling structure, rhythmic and movement in harmonic frequencies, some subtle interplay between tension and release.

I didn't score your piece the way I did because I didn't get your concept -- I scored it the way I did because I believe that you could have done it better, and some things led me to believe that you just didn't put your whole heart into it the way you need to in order to place well in a contest full of such great talents.

You did good -- but many other contenders did great. Don't be afraid to really work at a piece until everything works for you -- until you love every little sound and nuance in the piece. Go out on a limb. Put your heart and soul into a piece. The world between worlds is a sort of limbo -- but it's not lifeless and flat, and if it is, it's not a good subject for music.

- Eric


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01.01.2004, 19:27 Profile of dilvie Add dilvie to your Buddy-List Homepage of dilvie Add dilvie to your Contact-List AIM Screenname: dilvie23
liquid boy




Date Registered:
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thanks for your comments.... - although some of it i disagree with some of it (eg. the part about the concept being nothing if the piece doesnt stand on its own) i'm not (too) dogmatic about it - its really good to get some constructive criticism...
i'm not really a perfectionist with my music (you can probably tell) so im not bothered about it being perfect
i still don't think that the lack of direction is bad... but that's ok, i understand where you're coming from, and what your point is etc...

thanks for your comments.


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Last edited by liquid boy on 02.01.2004, 00:07 o'clock.

01.01.2004, 23:59 Profile of liquid boy Add liquid boy to your Buddy-List Homepage of liquid boy
nolwenn




Date Registered:
05.2003
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France
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Helo & hapee nu yeah 2 iverybodee

Thanx MFM for your positiv comment & Dilvie for your very construkteeve comments

I ve listened 2 all the song, & finally dicide to vot for the one wich make me the bigger impression the furst time i listened to : it's Liquid Boyz : random is the secret of life....

luv 2 the world

Nolwenn

03.01.2004, 21:34 Profile of nolwenn Add nolwenn to your Buddy-List
Taika-Kim




Date Registered:
03.2002
Location:
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About randomization:
take an already finished song, and THEN randomize everything! I did it sometimes, and it usually produced at least a couple of cheap laughs

07.01.2004, 04:06 Profile of Taika-Kim Add Taika-Kim to your Buddy-List Homepage of Taika-Kim
MfM




Date Registered:
08.2003
Location:
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TO DILVIE:HI,can you explain me the meanings of your valuation method one by one?

for example:

1)STRUCTURE:.......
2)DYNAMICS:........

and so on!!!!

THANK YOU!


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11.01.2004, 17:29 Profile of MfM Add MfM to your Buddy-List
tlon




Date Registered:
01.2004
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First of all great work everyone.
But as far as I am concern different forest is ny favourite track, i am kind of sad it does n't have enough votes by the time beeing

14.01.2004, 18:08 Profile of tlon Add tlon to your Buddy-List
Rhino




Date Registered:
03.2002
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To Dilvie,

Thanks a lot for your measured comments. It's great to have somebody on the scene providing subjective reviews about all our tunes. Thanks again and keep up the good work.


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15.01.2004, 11:18 Profile of Rhino Add Rhino to your Buddy-List Homepage of Rhino
Rhino




Date Registered:
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To Alk,

Seeing as I know you like your ST's, check out some of my chip tunes in the latest DHS Christmas Compo over at http://www.dhs.nu/scene_compo_xmas2003.php and then click on 'Download the qualified entries with vote sheet.'
(our entry is under the group name 'Torment').
To anyone else, you'll need an emulator such as Steem or a real ST to hear it.


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15.01.2004, 11:36 Profile of Rhino Add Rhino to your Buddy-List Homepage of Rhino
alk




Date Registered:
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yay

15.01.2004, 17:56 Profile of alk Add alk to your Buddy-List
lastfuture




Date Registered:
02.2002
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Ooooooh... Mom, have I won yet?

Thanks, ten people who voted for me... the others... hmm.

...but seriously, results aside I am positively surprised about the level of participation this compo spawned, as well as the many flavors of sound and the very individual tunes. Two thumbs up. I'm very happy about how many of the tunes turned out, and dilvie, thanks a lot for your ratings, they give a subjective but never the less good overview about each and every aspect of the entries.

I have to bow in front of the following participants:
- alk
- rhino
- dilvie

alk, you surprised me. This is the first of your tunes which has a clear structure and the well chosen spots of chippiness gave it a sweet overall sound.

rhino, a very organic and flowing tune, great instrument work. Its partial monotony was a two-bladed sword. Oh the one hand it supported the flow and took one's mind away, on the other hand it made the tune too little exciting.

dilvie, a very nice base you started off, unfortunately with your concept of not using drums you didn't get very far. Some epic twists and crescendos was what I definitely longed for when listening to your tune.


Ok, folks, I had written a list of participants whose entries I didn't like but I decided to take it out again. I would just be really unfair to diss them here, and I don't need more enemies than I already have.


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ksn




Date Registered:
11.2001
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ok all, this compo was really great : 16 songs (by far the greatest number), 47 votes (which is still uncredibly low but is far more than for the previous compos) and really good pieces of music made with the most restrictive rules we set !

this was not easy and it must have taken important amounts of work and efforts so congrats to all ! (i know what i mean because i wasn't able to finished a song which would have enough quality to be submitted myself... )

we really wondered how people would react with a native plugins only compo, so we are very happy with what was achieved.

thanks to all !


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17.01.2004, 11:56 Profile of ksn Add ksn to your Buddy-List Homepage of ksn Add ksn to your Contact-List
MfM




Date Registered:
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Hi to everybody also this compo is over!!!
Congratulations to the winner LAST FUTURE!!
I’m very happy because at last many peoples had voted 47 it’s a good finishing line and this show how psycledelics are alive…..YES.
But on the other hand I’m not happy cause nobody vote my song…(SIGH!SIGH!)…..no…no……anyway I’m HAPPY !!! and I’ll make up the next COMPO!!!!......by the way,when :COMPO#5 ??????


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20.01.2004, 13:35 Profile of MfM Add MfM to your Buddy-List
Aymes




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04.2003
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Woo! 2nd??!!
Never expected to get that high up

Just like to say thanks for all that voted for me! and well done to everyone else who entered

woooo!

20.01.2004, 19:32 Profile of Aymes Add Aymes to your Buddy-List
|3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\|




Date Registered:
08.2003
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Edmonton
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|3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\| ist offline
Native Pug-ins        Go on top to this Page

Hey. I guess this is my first post. I looked at the winner and saw plug-in like Sublime, and Phantom. I have these but I didn't know they were considered native plugins. What exacly is considered a native plugin?

05.02.2004, 06:33 Profile of |3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\| Add |3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\| to your Buddy-List Homepage of |3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\|
|3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\|




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  LoL        Go on top to this Page

Now I look really stupid. Those are Native!!!... Never mind... And no drum samples loops are allowed?

05.02.2004, 06:39 Profile of |3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\| Add |3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\| to your Buddy-List Homepage of |3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\|
BJohan




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|23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||)
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|23c0(_-n!+i()|\ A e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n C ()|\||3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||)
|23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||) |23 M _-n!+i()|\||3e K |\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||)
|23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\ E e`/o|\||) |2 I (_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||)
|23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e R |\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||)
|23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_- N i()|\||3e`/o|\||)
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|23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||)
|23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||)
|23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||) |23c0(_-n!+i()|\||3e`/o|\||)

Last edited by BJohan on 05.02.2004, 13:39 o'clock.

05.02.2004, 13:32 Profile of BJohan Add BJohan to your Buddy-List Homepage of BJohan Add BJohan to your Contact-List AIM Screenname: bohan@jabber.org (no A0L) YIM Screenname: bohan@jabber.org (no Yah00!1)
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