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From alk on 29.04.2003, 12:04:

 

>dudes, i dont write nonsense, i just write some opinions maturated chatting with other ppl on #buzz..
many buzzers are really against psycle and psycle centralized community..

>with my posts i just tried to give you another point of view, i thinked this could help the PSycle scene, but maybe i was wrong or maybe u thinked i wanted to destroy your kindergarden.. so excuse me!


q. 1

what's your (you and #buzz) problem with psycle and the psycledelics community? our "kindergarden"?


q. 2

if you ask anyone who's part of the community you'll find out that it's very successful, does anyone have any problem with it apart from you and individuals in #buzz? if so please speak out!


it seems that your beligerance to psycle community comes from some people from this board's dislike for buzz, this has led you to criticize psycledelics.

I hope that you're knowledge of the shortcomings of our community is based in reality and not snobbery and you may enlighten us as to improving it.

-alk


From FingerSoup on 29.04.2003, 16:52:

 

quote:
Original by ladproject
sorry for late answer, i was out for a while..

dudes, i dont write nonsense, i just write some opinions maturated chatting with other ppl on #buzz..
many buzzers are really against psycle and psycle centralized community..

with my posts i just tried to give you another point of view, i thinked this could help the PSycle scene, but maybe i was wrong or maybe u thinked i wanted to destroy your kindergarden.. so excuse me!

topic closed.
later (hope in minus aggressive mood from your side)

laD_





I think the point that we are trying to get across to you, is that what you are complaining about has already been discussed, decisions have been made, and that you have to live with those decisions. It's not that people haven't thought about it... The team has learned from the mistakes of BUZZ. Hence, it is open-source. The dev team is up front about the technical issues of psycle. Can you tell me what has been done with Buzz 2 lately? I'm sure if I asked, I could find out what has been changed from Psycle 1.72 and whatever the dev team is working on - they'd probably send me their current build to test. Last I heard, Oskari has said that nobody finds anything out until it is done. Considering many people believe Oskari's hard drive "crashed" in order to make BUZZ Commercial instead of donationware, there's also a lack of distrust between the users and the developers when compared to Psycle.

If you want to write the "Renegade Psycle" page, I do think that it would be against the dev team's wishes, but you are perfectly free to do it. You want to post buggy machines, and backdoor solutions for psycle, go ahead, because that's all a "Renegade Psycle" page would do... In fact I welcome it. a single place for the developed machines that has all the machines in which OTHER people have asked Psycledelics not to post. I'm sure someone still has the Buzz machine wrapper prototype out there. That's the only thing I can think of that the dev team would NOT post here; they repect other developers' wishes.

The fact remains, that developers are really open here. People are friendly. This discussion is probably the least "friendly" of the discussions here, and even this is a mainly civilized discussion.

When we have Compos here, the response may be small, but we aren't doing it to prove we're the best... We do it to force ourselves to be better musicians, and to show off what the software is capable of. Most of the compo music I've heard here is experimental - trying NEW things with Psycle - attempting to do what no one else has done with the software.

We WANT people to come here. We WANT them to talk to the dev team. We WANT the coders to learn the ins and outs of Psycle from the developers themselves. We WANT people to write quality software. We DON'T force any of this though... We encourage it... If you, as a plugin coder, don't want your machine hosted for free, included with every Psycle release, or don't want technical support/help from the authors of Psycle, then that's your choice. I see nothing RESTRICTING anyone... Only people willing to help others.

From my brief encounters with Buzz musicians, I have found them to be fairly eliteist - "If it's not BUZZ, it sucks!" seems to be the general attitude. I'm not saying they're all like this... But many of the ones I have run into on UT have been that way... Just like all the Renoise, FruityLoops, Rebirth, and MadTracker addicts. For them, there's olny ONE way to go... with THEIR program. Granted, you'll see me around pimping Psycle whenever someone asks for an opinion, but I'm always giving alternatives as well... People deserve a choice... We respect peoples' choice to use whatever they wish. If you can make good music in BUZZ, then good for you. You write game music for large companies, and you use Impulse Tracker? Kudos! You're a newbie who is wondering if Psycle is right for you? Fantastic. You think Psycle is a useless pile of bovine bi-products? Tell us what you're looking for and we'll make a reccomendation. I've recommended other programs to people here. For instance, all those people looking for a Line-in plugin, I recommend Plogue Bidule instead of Psycle.

So when you call these attitudes as "kindergarten" many of us can't help but wonder why... Just because you don't agree with the development practices of Psycle, doesn't mean that the practices are juvenile, or hostile in any way... They are different from those of BUZZ, and WE accept that. Anything else is just a misconception that you may have with how Psycle is being run.


__________________
I thought you beat the inevitability of death to death, just a little bit...


From [JAZ] on 29.04.2003, 23:30:

 

quote:
Original by ladproject
many buzzers are really against psycle and psycle centralized community..



Actually, it's strange when buzzers are not against Psycle or anything related to it.

Also, I would like to know which is this "centralized community" that you talk about, and why is it a problem. Again, I repeat that there are webpages outhere that talk about Psycle and we don't stop them. They are informative.

What we are against, is about pages that compile Psycle, and distribute it, without our knowledge, or even doing modifications and not even giving back the source. It is true that right now, the Psycle License is not clear at all, and if we have to check the one selected in the sourceforge project, it is quite open.

Check what happens with emule. You have an official version, and then, tons of MOD's for each version (and more, day by day). The license in that case, at least forces the modders to open the source as well, so eventually, the good new things can be added to the official one, but, on the other hand, this opennes is doing harm sometimes, where people modify versions to "cheat", or do changes that (unintentionally or not) make the system go worse than before, etc..

This type of things are the ones we are affraid of. And especially being the license of Psycle so unclear.

I am trying to reorder the sources and separate them (I am starting it already) to make it more clear, and especially, to be able to set up with a license that wouldn't give problems.

Again, if someone things that the Psycle community is restrictive, it means that he/she hasn't talked with us.


__________________
<[JAZ]> Pa pi pa pa pa pi pa.... ;∑D


From ksn on 29.04.2003, 23:36:

 

quote:
Original by FingerSoup

I think the point that we are trying to get across to you, is that what you are complaining about has already been discussed, decisions have been made, and that you have to live with those decisions. It's not that people haven't thought about it... The team has learned from the mistakes of BUZZ. Hence, it is open-source. The dev team is up front about the technical issues of psycle. Can you tell me what has been done with Buzz 2 lately? I'm sure if I asked, I could find out what has been changed from Psycle 1.72 and whatever the dev team is working on - they'd probably send me their current build to test. Last I heard, Oskari has said that nobody finds anything out until it is done. Considering many people believe Oskari's hard drive "crashed" in order to make BUZZ Commercial instead of donationware, there's also a lack of distrust between the users and the developers when compared to Psycle.

If you want to write the "Renegade Psycle" page, I do think that it would be against the dev team's wishes, but you are perfectly free to do it. You want to post buggy machines, and backdoor solutions for psycle, go ahead, because that's all a "Renegade Psycle" page would do... In fact I welcome it. a single place for the developed machines that has all the machines in which OTHER people have asked Psycledelics not to post. I'm sure someone still has the Buzz machine wrapper prototype out there. That's the only thing I can think of that the dev team would NOT post here; they repect other developers' wishes.

The fact remains, that developers are really open here. People are friendly. This discussion is probably the least "friendly" of the discussions here, and even this is a mainly civilized discussion.

When we have Compos here, the response may be small, but we aren't doing it to prove we're the best... We do it to force ourselves to be better musicians, and to show off what the software is capable of. Most of the compo music I've heard here is experimental - trying NEW things with Psycle - attempting to do what no one else has done with the software.

We WANT people to come here. We WANT them to talk to the dev team. We WANT the coders to learn the ins and outs of Psycle from the developers themselves. We WANT people to write quality software. We DON'T force any of this though... We encourage it... If you, as a plugin coder, don't want your machine hosted for free, included with every Psycle release, or don't want technical support/help from the authors of Psycle, then that's your choice. I see nothing RESTRICTING anyone... Only people willing to help others.

From my brief encounters with Buzz musicians, I have found them to be fairly eliteist - "If it's not BUZZ, it sucks!" seems to be the general attitude. I'm not saying they're all like this... But many of the ones I have run into on UT have been that way... Just like all the Renoise, FruityLoops, Rebirth, and MadTracker addicts. For them, there's olny ONE way to go... with THEIR program. Granted, you'll see me around pimping Psycle whenever someone asks for an opinion, but I'm always giving alternatives as well... People deserve a choice... We respect peoples' choice to use whatever they wish. If you can make good music in BUZZ, then good for you. You write game music for large companies, and you use Impulse Tracker? Kudos! You're a newbie who is wondering if Psycle is right for you? Fantastic. You think Psycle is a useless pile of bovine bi-products? Tell us what you're looking for and we'll make a reccomendation. I've recommended other programs to people here. For instance, all those people looking for a Line-in plugin, I recommend Plogue Bidule instead of Psycle.

So when you call these attitudes as "kindergarten" many of us can't help but wonder why... Just because you don't agree with the development practices of Psycle, doesn't mean that the practices are juvenile, or hostile in any way... They are different from those of BUZZ, and WE accept that. Anything else is just a misconception that you may have with how Psycle is being run.


clap clap clap clap !!
i won't add a word


__________________
soundcloud.com/ksniod
ksniod.wordpress.com
@ksniod on twitter


From ladproject on 30.04.2003, 14:01:

 

quote:
q. 1

what's your (you and #buzz) problem with psycle and the psycledelics community? our "kindergarden"?




i have no problem, i have just written some opinions. and i talked only for me, not for all the Buzz world.



quote:

q. 2

if you ask anyone who's part of the community you'll find out that it's very successful, does anyone have any problem with it apart from you and individuals in #buzz? if so please speak out!




i repeat, i have no problems..
and i wrote all i needed to say. thats all.


quote:

it seems that your beligerance to psycle community comes from some people from this board's dislike for buzz, this has led you to criticize psycledelics.



this is your opinion. i didnt criticize psycledelics. and im not beligerant, im talking in the most civil way possible for me. the only "beligerant" words i saw here were not written by me.


quote:

I hope that you're knowledge of the shortcomings of our community is based in reality and not snobbery and you may enlighten us as to improving it.



no snobbery by my side. i still visit this site and I AM STILL ready for italian traslation of the Psycle manual (when it willl come out!).

what i wrote was not intended (like maybe somebody thinks) for make war. i just wrote some opinions i cant resist to put out more. maybe my knowdledge is limited to what i read here, ok.. but its not my fault if i cant join #psycle.


__________________
dont judge me for my words but judge me for my music:
http://ladproject.cjb.net


From FingerSoup on 30.04.2003, 15:18:

 

quote:
Original by ladproject
[
what i wrote was not intended (like maybe somebody thinks) for make war. i just wrote some opinions i cant resist to put out more. maybe my knowdledge is limited to what i read here, ok.. but its not my fault if i cant join #psycle.





No hard feelings. As for joining #psycle, Pikari posted a great link to an open CGI:IRC gateway, in your IRC thread.

Just switch the server from the NYC2600 server to any EFNET server and switch the channel to #psycle

http://www.webiest.com/chat/irc.cgi

Assuming the 2600 stands for 2600 magazine, they are a bunch of hackers on that server, and I'd be extra careful about what kind of information I put over it Regardless, it is open for ANYONE to use right now, and I can only assume from the "Hacker ethic" that if it is this open, they intend for it to be used by many people for any reason.

There is also a webchat linked on the EFNET home page, which is:

http://www.efnet.org

The site seems to be missing pages right now though, but the Webchat still works... even if the server list is limited. You will have to do a manual /join #psycle on the EFnet webchat site...


__________________
I thought you beat the inevitability of death to death, just a little bit...


From D-503 on 30.04.2003, 17:29:

 

If Psycle was to move away from FT2/IT2 tracker world to something more like Buzz then I wouldn't use it for the same reasons I don't use Buzz.

If you don't like the way psycle works then by all means change it to suit your needs, the source is there, just don't expect it to be endorsed by the developers. Otherwise complain to Oskari for Buzz not being up to your standards and for supposedly losing the source in a hdd crash (he'd still have it if Buzz was open source).

In a few years time all the former Buzz users will be crapping on about how great Psycle is.


__________________
Death Ö Itís the only thing we havenít succeeded in completely vulgarizing.
- Aldous Huxley, Eyeless in Gaza (1936)


From ksn on 30.04.2003, 17:36:

 

quote:
Original by ladproject
what i wrote was not intended (like maybe somebody thinks) for make war. i just wrote some opinions i cant resist to put out more.


lad, just read again your post, i can assure you it can't be taken as a peaceful message.
this is even more surprising from you who has been nice here before. i still don't understand why you chose to be agressive about psycle and psycledelics...

anyway this is past. up to constructive things now please.


__________________
soundcloud.com/ksniod
ksniod.wordpress.com
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From ladproject on 02.05.2003, 11:35:

 

FingerSoup:

GOOD LINK!!! thx a lot.. it works good, im on #psycle now! thx a lot dude..

ksn:
i read again my posts and i dont see all the hostile mood you are talking about..
maybe you may read some posts on buzzmachines.com written by some Reason trolls or by some Fruity Loosers for understanding what "agrressive post" means..

anyway, just go on..

im pretty positive today. 30įC out there, summer is arrived (FINALLY!!)..

i have still some problems with LiLO that corrupt my Windows98 but this is another story.. im happy today...

bZzz..

/me pimp slaps everyone

laD_


__________________
dont judge me for my words but judge me for my music:
http://ladproject.cjb.net


From ksn on 02.05.2003, 12:45:

 

quote:
Original by ladproject
ksn:
maybe you may read some posts on buzzmachines.com written by some Reason trolls or by some Fruity Loosers for understanding what "agrressive post" means..


that's exactly what we don't want here !
and we don't have this sort of troll agressive and useless threads and posts here.
so i guess we're not as selfish and close-minded as you said
Psycle doesn't seem to interest those young agressive trollers and hypers. and it's a good thing.


__________________
soundcloud.com/ksniod
ksniod.wordpress.com
@ksniod on twitter


From ladproject on 02.05.2003, 15:02:

 

quote:
Psycle doesn't seem to interest those young agressive trollers and hypers. and it's a good thing.


ya, maybe Reason trolls and Fruity loosers have not time for flaming this board.. they are too much involved into writing shit at buzzmachines.com board! :-)

bah. the mother of the cock-heads is always pregnant!
why? she doesnt know how much useful are condoms?

this is the question of the week!


__________________
dont judge me for my words but judge me for my music:
http://ladproject.cjb.net


From D-503 on 02.05.2003, 17:36:

 

there are many Fruity Loops, Reason, etc threads on United Trackers (www.united-trackers.org).. some even asking how to use these programs. Don't they realise that Reason and Fruity aren't trackers?


__________________
Death Ö Itís the only thing we havenít succeeded in completely vulgarizing.
- Aldous Huxley, Eyeless in Gaza (1936)


From FingerSoup on 03.05.2003, 01:44:

 

The problem is, that these peices of software are closely linksed with tracking... Before, you used to either track, or do MIDI. You had your Cakewalk people, and your Scream Tracker people. Oil and water... The MIDI people wanted to record the music they played into their keyboards, and play back, without having to deal with the back-end of how everything is stored. So long as it played back the same on THEIR hardware. Trackers wanted their samples, along with the more direct control over how notes are stored, and were willing to sacrifice the accuracy of MIDI, in order to get uniform playback across all computers.

Then someone had the bright idea to interface MIDI to a Tracker. Now the MIDI people had a reason to use a tracker: They now had access to the trackers' uniform playback. Thus, MIDI was used for input of notes, in trackers... But tracking interfaces were too "clunky" for many "computer sub-literate" musicians to use.

Then came Cubase. Cubase was designed to interface MIDI and sample-based music together. Tracking = Sample based music. Therefore people who could master Cubase, could use MIDI for sample-based Music. Add to that VST plugin technology, and you've got an unlimited number of patches for your instrument. Your sound banks are now virtual, instead of being some hard-coded piece of software burned to a ROM, or wired directly to a processor. It was a powerful computer.

Of course, a few years later, Oskari had the bright idea of doing the opposite: Take the toys that are available to MIDI, and build a tracker around it. BUZZ was born.

Unfortunately, you now have several pieces of software with the SAME functionality, but with two completely different design concepts. Two completely different beginnings, with a single end. The battle is no longer Between MIDI and Trackers, because MIDI is now integrated in most trackers. The big difference is the interface. Piano Roll, vs. Tracking Grid. Issues with one type of software, are VERY similar to other pieces of software... "How do I get my ASIO sound card working?" or "Why doesn't that Super-poly-retro-omni-Synth VST work?" and thus the nextgen tracker scene is now closely linked with Fruity Loops and its brethren... This is where the obfuscation of the tracking scene lies, and where people say nextgen trackers are not really trackers, but instead, a version of Fruityloops bastardized to the point that it liiks like Impulse Tracker. Likewise, on the other side of the fence, the FruityLoops people are all against the "Ugly tracker interface" that we have, in our nextgen tracker communities.

It's a bloody mess, that wouldn't be here if people didn't feel the need to force their opinions on others. That is why I feel people need a choice. Psycle does the same bloody thing as FruityLoops - It makes music... anything else at this stage of the game is personal preference. So tell people to quit bitching about useless arguements, and use whatever piece of software they wish. Give them a choice. Don't take their choice as a personal attack, because it is different from your own... the Psycle community seems to understand this rather well, in comparison to other music software communities.


__________________
I thought you beat the inevitability of death to death, just a little bit...


From D-503 on 03.05.2003, 05:37:

 

yes. Fruity Loops does do the same thing as Psycle. The main difference though is, Psycle is free :-) If you use Cubase or Reason to make music then great. If you want us poor Psycle, Impulse Tracker, FT2 or Buzz users to use it. Either burn us a copy or shut up! :-)


__________________
Death Ö Itís the only thing we havenít succeeded in completely vulgarizing.
- Aldous Huxley, Eyeless in Gaza (1936)


From DANCEnRg on 03.05.2003, 05:49:

 

quote:
Original by FingerSoup
It's a bloody mess, that wouldn't be here if people didn't feel the need to force their opinions on others. That is why I feel people need a choice. Psycle does the same bloody thing as FruityLoops - It makes music... anything else at this stage of the game is personal preference. So tell people to quit bitching about useless arguements, and use whatever piece of software they wish. Give them a choice. Don't take their choice as a personal attack, because it is different from your own... the Psycle community seems to understand this rather well, in comparison to other music software communities.



Isn't it nice when someone writes a nice peace of 'reason' no pun intended from all the ' bloody mess'

Nicely wrote Fingersoup

one of the reasons I like the psycledelics forum is it seems to attract many of the sanest musicians on the internet and music scene.

I have trouble understanding ( why I'd want to ?) the Arguments and competition between different music programs.I agree it's completely about personal choice and perhaps one day we may all learn that personal choice is the most meaning & right we have.The right to choose and the meaning to have the 'right to choose',without a sense of having 'a right of choice' your meaning only becomes finding a meaning in feeling oppressed.And theirs only one meaning in being repressed and thats to express your feelings too your oppressor.

Like I go on about drugs and traffic and some business ethics not because I wish to take away the right too choose to take drugs,produce allot of noise or advertise.

No quite the opposite,it's because I feel these are some of the key issues in society's that actually take away individuals feeling of choice because of addiction,ignorance or selfish material gain.The problem is though often the oppressor in these circumstances may be the people you have too some how respect, them & their choice's to maintain your own sense of self respect and humanity.

As for psycle,I've tried every music program I've heard of and learnt too use most of them most recently cubase sx and basically psycle just feels right for me


__________________
www.dancenrg.iuma.com


From FingerSoup on 03.05.2003, 06:27:

 

quote:
Original by D-503
yes. Fruity Loops does do the same thing as Psycle. The main difference though is, Psycle is free :-) If you use Cubase or Reason to make music then great. If you want us poor Psycle, Impulse Tracker, FT2 or Buzz users to use it. Either burn us a copy or shut up! :-)





You'll also notice that I am probably one of the first people who complain about the piracy issues over at UT... Piracy is wrong. If you're going to do it, don't do it in a place that doesn't support piracy. Likewise, if you're going to pirate software, then DON'T ASK FOR IT FROM THE AUTHORS!!! Yannick must be pissed at all those people asking for free versions of MadTracker... It's just plain rude.


__________________
I thought you beat the inevitability of death to death, just a little bit...


From D-503 on 03.05.2003, 20:01:

 

The way I see it is, if you use pirated software and make a profit from it, then you should buy it. But if you just want to use it for fun or a hobby then fine go ahead and use it. Just don't expect help on how to use the pirated software or for people to pat you on the back to justify you using the software.

Some copyright laws are stupid though. If I buy a CD and want to make a back up of it for my own personal use, then I am breaking the law. And the same with other forms of media. Why can't I copy the original and use the backup so that my original stays in good condition? how many CD's do you own that skip? I own at least two or three.


__________________
Death Ö Itís the only thing we havenít succeeded in completely vulgarizing.
- Aldous Huxley, Eyeless in Gaza (1936)


From Angelus on 04.05.2003, 15:17:

 


I think that personal copies for own use of music CD's or software (you've purchased) as a backup is allowed (I think you can make 1 copy for this purpouse).


__________________

(???)Oo. X( :( :| :) :)) :D .cC(Psycle!)


From FingerSoup on 05.05.2003, 03:04:

 

This is mostly correct... Some countries do not allow backups. Others, such as the US, allow backups, but do not allow you to circumvent any kind of copy protection/encryption to do so... Likewise, distribution of your backup is illegal.

It is interesting to note, that Iraq had very sane, lenient copyright law, which allowed backups, and had reasonable lengths of time before a work became public Domain (25 years after Artist's death, as opposed to the US' 50-75, with possibility of renewal from major labels/the artist's estate). Hilary Rosen (former RIAA exec) is now drafting a new copyright law in Iraq based off of the US' copyright model.

Is the US overstepping its bounds in this matter? Please discuss.

quote:
Original by Angelus

I think that personal copies for own use of music CD's or software (you've purchased) as a backup is allowed (I think you can make 1 copy for this purpouse).


__________________
I thought you beat the inevitability of death to death, just a little bit...


From GeometricInsanity on 10.01.2008, 22:54:

 

Hello i was wondering im thinking of moving over to psycle after using ModPlugTracker for servaral years now i feel like a change, just asking is it a big jump from the scroll down screen where you just put the notes in or dose it have one of those to ive used buzz once but found that you could only add so much before it aite all my memory up and crashed my computer yes its probly because mines rubbish but! ive had a look at psycle and it looks similar in the fact that you have to put the machines on the screen whitch dont get me wrong i like it alot and saves time with all the paramater side of things to also just is it easy to add new instruments on or change the way they soung not only from the effects but the instruments them selves.

any help would be most greatful as ive downloaded it and still kinda getting used to the new surroundings and any hints on some good synths and generators would be fandoodalitasic

i hope i can as much fun use psycle as i did with modplug

thanks for your input and advice as much as possible please

GeometricInsanity

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