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|-- MIDI controller knobs how-to? (http://psycle.pastnotecut.org/threadid.php?boardid=3&threadid=3072)


From Martin12345 on 13.01.2017, 20:13:

  MIDI controller knobs how-to?

I read the manual and some tutorials but still don't know how to use midi controller with Psycle. It is AKAI LPD8, drum pads play notes fine but I want to map knobs to control mixer faders or tweak knobs in instruments (VSTi).
It seems like it's not gonna be as easy as in Renoise but I don't even know where to start (do I need MidiYoke?).

Could someone write short step-by-step guide?

I use Psycle 1.12.0


From [JAZ] on 13.01.2017, 22:31:

 

Hello.

The first version of MIDI support that Psycle had, was more intended to be used as a softsynth controlled with MIDI by a software sequencer.
It sent the notes, and used the mapping that is available in Configuration->Settings, Midi mapping tab. That was intended to convert midi control commands to specific Psycle commands.

Later on, that was improved and it allowed to use it without a sequencer (i.e. simply with a midi controller without needing a clock) and to forward midi commands directly to the VST synths that could understand them.

But that is all. A preset system and a default mapping has never been implemented, so there are no concepts of what the Mixer is, or to behave in a specific way if receiving some midi command.

Between version 1.10 and 1.12, what can be done with MIDI has seen improvements, but there is still a barrier when one wants to control specific machines that don't use default control commands.

As for information, take a look at the Psycle help file ( psycle.chm, in Psycle's Doc folder. You will probably be able to open it too by Pressing F1).
There is a chapter "Controlling Psycle externally with MIDI".


__________________
<[JAZ]> Pa pi pa pa pa pi pa.... ;D


From Martin12345 on 14.01.2017, 01:59:

 

Thanks for the answer. I wasn't sure if the forum is still active.

Well I read help file but it only says 'it can be done' but it doesn's say how.

I just want to control vst's virtual knobs with my akai controller. Firstly, do I have to use Yoke for this?

Secondly, MIDI controllers tab in Settings - this is black magic for me.

I really need step by step 'how to map' guide.


From Martin12345 on 14.01.2017, 03:01:

 

OK I got something (automapping?)
I used Claw VSTi synth.

Settings:

Input device: akai or yoke - no difference.
[x] Immediate playback.

MIDI controllers tab:
(Currently selected in Psycle)
(Currently selected in Psycle)
[x] Record Raw MIDI as MCM

4 knobs (out of eight) control 4 knobs on Claw.
But still don't know how to remap them.
(Claw has 22 parameters to control).


From Martin12345 on 14.01.2017, 06:33:

 

OK finally learnt black magic.
I can control vst and mixer faders.
Just bit tricky to find proper values to replace default 0-FF in MIDI Controllers tab.

How about multiple controllers? Possible?



From Martin12345 on 14.01.2017, 06:54:

 

Hold on.
Only 10 controllers?


From [JAZ] on 15.01.2017, 11:21:

 

Hi.

The site isn't much active, as you see, but I still come here regularly so that questions can get answered.

You got the things mostly right.
At much, you can change the "select generator/instrument by" and put there the "selected by program change".
That way, you could change the selected machine from the controller using the program change option. Of course, if you find it easier to just change it in Psycle with the mouse/keyboard, then that's not needed.
If this is set to "selected by midi channel", then it could be used with multiple controllers, but you would need midi yoke and http://www.midiox.com/myoke.htm#Usage]midi-ox as a hub[/URL].

But as you find out, there is still missing a controller mapping screen. There is only the controller map tab, and that is one single configuration for all controllers and machines, which limits the possibilities a lot.

What you could try, if the controller has it, is to create different mappings on the controller itself. The keyboard I had included a program where I could set mappings and then load them to the keyboard.
It allowed to change between GM, GS, and program-specific mappings.

That solution is still weak, since you still have one mapping at a time for all machines, but maybe it would work better for your scenario.

About Midi Yoke: No, you use Midi Yoke when bridging between two applications ( Psycle and a sequencer ), not when used with a controller. The only reason to use it with controllers is the scenario of using more than one controller at a time, because Psycle can only connect to one, and Midi-OX can be used then to hub all them into one connection.


__________________
<[JAZ]> Pa pi pa pa pa pi pa.... ;D


From Martin12345 on 15.01.2017, 13:33:

 

So who is still using Psycle in 2017? Just you and me?

Things I don't like:
10 controllers limit.
64 tracks limit.
I can't play on keys , . / (between M and Shift).

Otherwise very good tracker, after learning keyboard shortcuts, fast workflow.


From Angelus on 15.01.2017, 18:47:

 

quote:
So who is still using Psycle in 2017? Just you and me?

I do... but not so often as in the past. So little time now!

Anyway, welcome here.


__________________

(???)Oo. X( :( :| :) :)) :D .cC(Psycle!)


From Martin12345 on 11.02.2017, 17:26:

 

So after few weeks I tried Psycle again and I have big problem with midi controller.
It doesn't seem to obey the config (midi tab).
I can record tweaks using mouse, they show up i pattern as twk but when I record tweaks using midi controller they show up as mcm and commands are not sent to vst (I tried Claw synth just like before).
I changed values in midi tab settings, turned controllers on and off but it has no effect at all.
I reinstalled Psycle, I tried older version, I tried different midi controller, no luck.
What am I doing wrong?
(Controllers work fine in other DAWs).


From [JAZ] on 11.02.2017, 19:02:

 

If it records mcm commands, then it is because, on that midi tab, there the "send midi commands as mcm" checkbox checked.

That check mostly disables all the other controls, because it lets the message pass directly.
Also, verify the "select generators" and "select instrument" dropdown lists. Depending on what they have selected, you need to use the controller in one way or another (changing midi channel, changing program, or doing nothing)

Also, open the midi performance dialog so that you can see if messages are being received and where are they being sent.


__________________
<[JAZ]> Pa pi pa pa pa pi pa.... ;D


From Martin12345 on 11.02.2017, 19:14:

 

Yes I unchecked 'midi as mcm' and changed mcm/twk/tws but it has no effect. Midi controller DOES NOT READ midi settings tab.

Midi monitoring fine,I can record tweaks in pattern (mcm only) but controller is 'not connected' to vst synth


From Martin12345 on 11.02.2017, 22:30:

 

I quickly reinstalled Windows and everything is fine again.


From Martin12345 on 12.02.2017, 06:28:

 

The last thing:

I changed SELECTED BY MIDI CHANNEL INDEX in midi controllers tab.
In midi mapping I see 4 synths assigned to channel 1,2,3,4 accordingly.

1. How do I change the channel so I control synth 2,3,4?
2. I don't see mixer or effects on the list.



From [JAZ] on 12.02.2017, 13:26:

 

When using the "select by midi channel", the first 16 generators are automatically assigned to the 16 midi channels. That way, configuring the controller to a specific midi channel automatically uses a specific machine.
Psycle supports only 16 midi channels (the basic MIDI standard).

In order to use more machines, you need to use the "program" or "bank" option.
In that case, you select one midi channel in the controller, and then use the program or bank selector of the midi keyboard to specify which machine do you want to use in that channel.
This mode is most useful when using a sequencer, or having multiple keyboards and controllers, but it is still useful with a single controller that has program change buttons on it.

At last, there is the option of "currently selected in psycle", which means "I don't want to configure anything, just send what you receive to the machine selected in Psycle's screen".


__________________
<[JAZ]> Pa pi pa pa pa pi pa.... ;D


From Martin12345 on 12.02.2017, 18:10:

 

My controllers can't change channels but SELECTED BY PROGRAM CHANGE mode works for me.
The problem is:
I want to control effects (eg. send-return-mixer) but only instruments show up in midi monitor window.


From [JAZ] on 12.02.2017, 23:18:

 

My older controller does not work on windows 10 and can't try it right now, but if you can set the program bank to a value like 65, you should be able to select the effect.
Isn't that the case? (The numbers in Psycle are most of the time in HEX, so you have to convert them to decimal values)

10 = 16
20 = 32
40 = 64
and since Psycle starts at zero and programs start at 1, you add one to those values.


__________________
<[JAZ]> Pa pi pa pa pa pi pa.... ;D


From Martin12345 on 13.02.2017, 00:38:

 



AKAI has 8 drumpads so I can change program 1-8
(I can switch between instruments 00,01,02,03,04,05,06,07)

But actually I want to use M-AUDIO controller, to control send-return-mixer, and use computer keyboard + mouse to control instruments and effects.



It can't change the program so it always controls instrument 00.
I can use 'CURRENTLY SELECTED IN PSYCLE' but then when I switch to synth it controls the synth not the mixer. I want to control the mixer and play synth (QWERTY) at the same time.

If I had a mixer that works AS INSTRUMENT I could load it up to slot 00 and that would solve my problem.


From [JAZ] on 13.02.2017, 21:33:

 

Mmm.. this is where this might get complicated.

If you install a software midi port like loopbe, and then use midi-ox to open your devices, and output to loopbe. Then, opening also loopbe in Psycle instead of the device, you could then reprogram Psycle using the midi-ox features, which include sending program and bank changes.

I haven't used Psycle in such a complex scenario ( I used loopbe and midi-ox, but mostly to simulate midi messages, not to connect it with multiple devices), but it might be the last piece that you need.


__________________
<[JAZ]> Pa pi pa pa pa pi pa.... ;D


From Martin12345 on 14.02.2017, 01:06:

 

Interesting. I will give it a try tomorrow.

I was thinking about virtual controller like UniControl

It is an instrument so I could load it to slot 00 and control via M-Audio just not sure how to hook it in Psycle to send-return mixer.

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