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From Everdene on 28.03.2005, 01:01:

Velocity + Trigger Delay

I found Psycle last year and it provided my first positive experience with a tracker interface. Since then, I have started writing music with trackers (mostly movie theme music).

Unfortunately, I haven't been using Psycle for my authoring. Why not? Well, I like to add a certain feel to my tracks, especially if they were never played with reel instruments. 90% of my process with many VSTi's, certain synths and soundfont players, is messing with velocities and adding trigger delays. As far as I understand, I still can't do both at the same time with Psycle. I could add trigger delays (FDxx) and tweak with wire volumes, but that doesn't help with instruments that depend on velocity for a certain "feel." I can add velocity (0Cxx) and use an effect in the line to slide a track (like the echo, turning off Dry), but it doesn't really allow me to add much feel besides slide. I can create a lot of ticks per beat, but that makes the rest of my song hard to author. I can play with tempos, but that adds feel accross the whole song, not on individual tracks.

Are there work arounds that I'm missing? I'm looking forward to new releases of Psycle with better VSTi, etc., but until this isn't handled (sending velocity and trigger delay at the same time), I'll be using other trackers that handle this (unless there's a good work around that I'm not seeing).


From TranceMyriad on 28.03.2005, 05:25:

 

i think we should turn these sort of commands into tweak commands somehow to allow multiple usages....i.e. a new command, twn (tweak note) which could set the velocity etc of a particular note of a particular generator....i'm sure we could find some way to do this and make it convenient.....but unfortunately Everdene i don't know a way around this, sorry


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From FingerSoup on 28.03.2005, 11:35:

 

For Velocity, I think that a "Volume column" would be useful. For a sampler machine, the volume is essentially what you're toying with when you wish to simulate a difference in velocity. For VSTi I think that a Velocity column instead of a Volume column makes more sense.

As for a workaround, if using a greater lines per beat works, build the main song structure first using a manageable LPB, then expand your patterns by right-clicking on the pattern, check off the "Adapt content to new size" checkbox, then increase the rows to match whatever LPB you wish to use, in order to allow your intended "Note Delays"


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From someone else on 29.03.2005, 00:41:

 

Couldn't you just run the instrument you want to delay through the pooplog delay light machine and set the left and right feedback at zero and the mix at 100% wet?

You can then tweak the trigger delay.

Don't know if that's what you are after...


From TranceMyriad on 29.03.2005, 04:16:

 

Dunno if the pooplog delay intervals would be small enough...however, the same principle applies with other delay units....


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From Everdene on 29.03.2005, 04:46:

 

Thanks for the responses.

Yeah, the echo filter provides a good slide on a whole track by turning off the dry. And I'm able to tweak volumes along with trigger delays by tweaking global wire volumes, but that doesn't allow for the touch certain instruments have with velocities (like layered soundfonts, etc.).

I'm not trying to be too picky here, but it's just my workflow to add "feel" to a track or two for every song. Not just randomly "humanize" the track like some software does, but to make a hat have a bit of real groove or add a bit of touch to piano chords, so all the notes aren't playing exactly at once, like reel fingers are playing the chord. Another example would be when using a real harp sample, on a run I might add a bit of a velocity decay and a slight decresendo at the end.

I'm glad I've found trackers because they make it possible for me to intuitively write music by typing notes on a loptop, but some newer trackers offer a way for me to do that kind of "feel" tweaking that Psycle still doesn't have. Some allow for an extra parameter. Some have a global track velocity that can be tweaked. I don't know what would be best for Psycle (I'm not an expert and haven't used that many trackers). I just wanted to see if anyone had better work arounds than the ones I've figured out.

If the upcoming Psycle changes make the VSTi interfacing a little stronger (without all the backstabbing), Psycle will be a better host, but it will be a shame if Psycle still can't handle a little feel (velocity + note trigger delays) to something like the playing of a chord on a VSTi piano.

It would be great if someone read this and came up with a brilliant, simple idea to be implemented in one of the next builds. Most likely, this type of feature won't be implemented until some major changes are made.

A global track velocity probably wouldn't be the best since Psycle already handles the 0Cxx pretty intuitively. Would track delays, something that delayed triggers and could be tweaked with tweak commands add much overhead? That wouldn't require an interface change. It would also provide for simple track slides that can add a lot of grove. And if it could be tweaked, that would be fun, too.


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From Taika-Kim on 29.03.2005, 12:55:

 

Isn't the first column already unused with VSTs?

We could have C-4 40 01 0E03 for example meaning
Note C-4
Velocity 40 (on a range of 0-7F, the standard MIDI range 0-127)
Instrument 01
And the new effect 0E which would be note delay in a range of 0-FF parts of a tick.


From [JAZ] on 29.03.2005, 21:28:

 

Hello there.

Some quick responses:

Since Psycle relied on the machines for most of what sound is about, no globals commands existed until not long ago. Moreover, the volume column once existed ( in very first alphas), but gave its space to "instrument/aux" column mostly for the sampler machine.

We acknowledge this limitation and agree to do something about it. Probably another general effects column will be implemented, and probably some special columns for global effects/tweaks, which are not channel-oriented.

Schedule is still not near.


I want to improve the VST host in several ways, since psycle is not using even half what it allows to. Some effects specific to midi might come in the near future.



Finally... the aux column does mean something with VST's, but it is rarely used. It means the MIDI channel at which psycle sends the data. If none is specified, it is sent to channel 1.


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From Taika-Kim on 30.03.2005, 15:26:

 

Ah, true about the AUX with midi! Forgot that one, even though I use it all the time %-)

In fact it IS useful for instruments like Edirol Orchestral and Hypersonic that work very well in multitimbral mode in Psycle...


From MfM on 30.03.2005, 17:52:

 

quote:
Original by Taika-Kim
Ah, true about the AUX with midi! Forgot that one, even though I use it all the time %-)

In fact it IS useful for instruments like Edirol Orchestral and Hypersonic that work very well in multitimbral mode in Psycle...



yes yes i agree...and also with edirol superquartet


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